by Davide Maspero and Max Ribaric
In the complex and ever-changing scenario of Nineties extreme metal, after the season of the arsons and once we entered that process of transition that would see the genre take two distinct directions – on one hand that of large-scale commercialization and on the other that of radicalization at all costs, taking the rudimentary ideological concepts expressed by the early representatives of the genre to the extreme – two characters strongly emerge, imprinting themselves on the collective imagination as the ultimate exacerbation of those anti-system concepts expressed by black metal: Varg Vikernes and Hendrik Möbus. Both with a blood-stained background, both with a charismatic personality and the protagonists of this genre’s musical history. Moreover, willing or unwilling, they are both considered NSBM’s putative fathers.
Today, Vikernes never misses an opportunity to emphasize the distance that separates him from anything that is even remotely associated to black metal, although banishing the ghosts of a past that has given him notoriety is not a simple task. Diametrically opposite is Möbus’ choice: once released from jail, he actively returned the the scene. Abandoning his career as a musician, he started managing Darker Than Black, which to this day is a a label strongly committed to digging into the underground in search of bands that are unfit for the mainstream music industry. Therefore, no one was better qualified than him to help us review the current state of the NSBM scene and the historical origins of this phenomenon.
Let’s take a step back to your activity as a musician. Absurd are widely considered as the pioneers of the soon to be called NSBM, and albums like Asgardsrei had a crucial impact on the scene, paving the way for other bands. How do you relate to this past and its legacy?
I am fine with it. Unlike many others from that era, I have never denounced who I am and what I have done. Black Metal was meant to be extreme music for extreme characters and it is a logical conclusion that “political extremism” can be included, too. If Black Metal shall be “more than music”, if it shall make an impact on the world beyond the realm of art – then “politics” is a means to this end, as a matter of course. Hence I have never drawn a line and said I, or Absurd for that matter, have to be “unpolitical” or whatever… Quite to the contrary, I think the only line can be drawn when it comes to “politically correct Black Metal”, because that’s nothing but an oxymoron.
The ideas and ideals that can be found in National Socialism, namely Social Darwinism and Individual Elitism, Aryan Supremacy and Anti-Judaism, Blood Mysticism and Neo-Paganism, among others, do suit Black Metal very well. Although I am not interested in “party politics” any longer, I do not deny that my world view remains the same more or less and that Black Metal is one medium for expressing me myself as well as a mirror that does reflect me myself, if you know what I mean…
During those years you also created Darker Than Black Records. In almost 20 years of activity it has become one of the most long-lasting labels focused on politically incorrect extreme metal, it’s been raided and shutdown by the police and was finally reborn in 2007. Not exactly the usual routine for a record label. What were your goals then and what are they now?
Well, I do prefer the old-fashioned position of a patron of arts. Maybe you have noticed that I do sign and produce “newcomers” first and foremost. I want artists and music bands to express their innermost creativity in an environment where they do not need to compromise their artistic vision. Many record companies and music magazines want Black Metal to be castrated and domesticated for the sake of improved “marketability”. From my point of view, that’s anathema to the true and original spirit of Black Metal. D.T.B. Records stands for the freedom of art and expression. There shall be no restrictions imposed on Black Metal.
Contrary to popular belief, I do not necessarily release “NSBM”-bands only. If you look at the release roster and schedule for D.T.B. Records, then you will find all sorts of Black-/Pagan Metal there. No band I am working with has to swear allegiance to my own, private worldview. They are free to express themselves how it suits them best. Needless to say, I draw a line where any band would advocate ideas diametrically opposed to the ones I have subscribed to myself. In all the history of the record label, it has never, ever happened that a band and I have had a falling-out over “politics”, though.
And what about your current relationship with the authorities regarding DTB’s activities?
I am sure they keep monitoring me, and what I am doing. Well, that’s one brave new world we are living in, is it not? A music compact disc can be more dangerous than, say, one kilogram of TNT. Words as weapons. Music of mass destruction. For as long as nobody does disturb my circles, I could not care less for what others, the “authorities” included, do think, say or write about D.T.B. Records, though.
How do you see NSBM today and which differences do you see between the current situation and the years when bands like Funeral/Kristallnacht, Absurd or bands from the Temple of Fullmoon moved their first steps?
Well, you will be hard-pressed to find any Black Metal-band that openly admits to being “NSBM” nowadays. It is only Der Stürmer and Wolfnacht, both from Hellas, that have no problem whatsoever with saying so. Many others, even though they are sympathizers of National Socialism, will insist that their lyrics are about war, genocide, oppression, what-have-you… but not about “politics”, as a matter of course. So, there’s a difference: In the late 1990ties, many bands who were said (and said so themselves!) to be “NSBM” did not bother to make any “political statement” whatsoever, but today you have bands making “political statements” that are hell-bent on avoiding the “NSBM”-tag for themselves nonetheless. Alas, that’s not even a “wolf in sheep’s clothing”-approach but cowardice and opportunism, plain and simple. You want to play with fire but you don’t want to get burnt. Well, I am not here to blame anyone, though. To each his own, and I am in a position where my “public reputation” could hardly suffer any more regardless of how I think and feel about National Socialism myself, for instance.
It’s a widespread opinion that NSBM is an extremization of black metal, triggered by the commercialization of the genre, which in turn led to the loss of its primary subversive force. Do you agree with this idea? In this sense could we say that NSBM retrieves BM’s original spirit?
Actually, that’s a minority opinion for all I know. However, you hit the nail right on the head! The rise of “NSBM” started at the same time when Black Metal experienced a massive commercial exploitation, in the late 1990ties. All of a sudden, the bloodshed caused by Black Metal and the ashes of torched churches left behind did not make a difference any longer, because the “music business”, in as far as Metal music is concerned, eventually realized you can move tens of thousands of albums of one Black Metal-band. Yes of course, the band would need to be less extreme, less violent and less militant for appealing to an even broader audience. Plenty of bands, in particular from Scandinavia, were willing to sacrifice whatever radical zealotry there was in Black Metal for the sake of “fame” and “money”. Needless to say, this decline of Black Metal has sparked a new wave of radicalization and extremism among the underground scene.
To some bands, the last resort that could effectively withstand the commercialization of Black Metal was to swear loyalty to National Socialism – if not in lyrics and “band image”, then in interviews and statements at the very least. In Western society, there is next to nothing left that a majority of people truly abhor and won’t ever tolerate no matter what. You can blaspheme Jesus Christ and hail Satan, so what? Nobody gives a fuck. You can talk about all sorts of sexual depravity, and they ask for more. In our day and age, it is only National Socialism that shuts all doors and turns all backs on you. Since Black Metal thrives best in isolation and self-induced hatred against the modern world, resorting to National Socialism as a means to keep untainted the pure essence of the genuine spirit of this particular genre ought not come as a surprise, actually.
Compared to the Nineties, NSBM seems to be less widespread in Western Europe, while it is very popular in the former Soviet territories, also in the form of pagan metal with racial implications. Do you think the succes of the genre in those areas is only due to the years spent under the Communist regime or could there be other reasons?
Well, if you travel to Russia or Ukraine, then you will experience a lot of sympathy for National Socialism among the young people. Not among the elders who still remember World War 2, but the generation of their grandsons and –daughters, and especially their children, does have a positive perception of National Socialism actually. They have witnessed, or have been told by their parents, how Bolshevism imploded all by itself and left nothing but economic disaster and spiritual desolation behind. Whereas National Socialism was a vibrant and vital ideology that challenged the world, and thus the world needed to combine the strength of numberless nations to defeat and to eventually crush National Socialism in Germany and elsewhere. That’s one reason why National Socialism is so popular in East Europe.
If there are “smartasses” over here who belittle this popularity and who call it nuts, because the “Nazis wanted to conquer, to enslave and to kill alls Slavs”, then it shows they, not the young folks over there, have no clue of history but keep parroting the propaganda hostile to National Socialism. Be that as it may, since you wondered why you have not so many obvious “NSBM”-bands in West Europe: You have to consider the legal situation in many countries, be them Germany or France or Benelux or Austria… in each one does exist “thought crime”-legislation that effectively outlaws any and all “glorification of National Socialism”. If a band does not want to be prosecuted, fined or even jailed, then they will surely attempt to “fly under the radar” so to speak. Sometimes it works, other times it does not.
As it happened before with black metal, NSBM gained fame and it spread from Central and South America to far Eastern Russia and Southeast Asia. What’s your opinion on the large scale diffusion of the genre?
Well, I will respectfully quote David Myatt in this regard: «With the defeat of Germany and its allies in the First Zionist War, National-Socialism was purified, emerging as a complete way of life, centered around honour, loyalty and duty. The political compromises needed to achieve power were gone, as were the supporters who did not understand or live up to the ideals of National-Socialism. The essence emerged as the shell covering the essence was destroyed in the crucible of that war. People who have described this essence include Savitri Devi, Miguel Serrano, and Leon Degrelle. Since we now consciously understand this essence, it is possible to create – and only now possible to create – a genuine National-Socialist society. This would be an entirely new type of society and while the inspiration would be National-Socialist Germany, it would in many ways be very different, although it would manifest the same ethos, the same ideals».
That being said, I do not believe National Socialism in general and “NSBM” in particular ought to be limited to, say, Germany or European countries. However, the racial component cannot be faded out completely. If mongrels or Jews would be playing “NSBM”, then I’d consider this a really odd choice of genre for any of them. Since National Socialism, and thus “NSBM” too, is about Blood (= Descent) and Soil (= Origin) first and foremost, you would have to relate to this tradition in one way or another or else it is out of question you do realize – much less, comprehend – what this ideology is all about.
Today, the NSBM label seems to include various ideas: paganism, white supremacism, social darwinism, Traditionalism, Nazi mysticism and all types of nationalism. According to you, are there any “requirements” that define a band as NSBM? Considering the variety of themes presented by such bands, does the prefix NS still make sense?
There’s only one requirement I can think of right now: Namely, a band has to say they are “NSBM” to begin with. If you just look at the private worldview of musicians, then you could rightfully say Burzum too is “NSBM” even though Varg Vikernes would certainly disagree with this assessment, because Burzum is not about “politics”. However, you have plenty bands with obvious references to World War 2 or to NS-Germany that still deny to be “NSBM” or to be “political” at all. Be that as it may, the prefix NS does make sense now as before. It’s like a badge of honour; it proves you are at war with the powers-that-be while all alone in a hostile world.
The growing “political threat” has also brought heavy metal in the sights of antifa organizations that started to hinder certain bands/events. Is it a problem that concerns Germany too?
Yes, we have similar problems in Germany but truth be told, I do not deem it negative if Black Metal is considered to be a “menace to society” and dealt with accordingly. So-called “Antifa” is making much noise over Black Metal and many bands, even the popular ones signed to major record labels, encounter problems due to a “guilt by association”. That’s nothing to be deplored, though. A music genre so firmly opposed to the modern world and each and everything that does uphold the status quo, how could it be less than marginalized and boycotted by the “mainstream society”, I do wonder? How the “politically correct” ones react to Black Metal, all of their revulsion and antagonism, that’s the way this music genre, the bands and the fans alike, ought to be dealt with, actually.
I would only be concerned if it was the other way around, with Black Metal being widely tolerated and absorbed by “mainstream society”. That would prove this music genre lost its edge, and thus the raison d’être too. For all I care, this must never happen. And for as long as I am here, running D.T.B. Records among others, I will see to it that Black Metal remains a genuine counter-culture meant to challenge, and to ultimately overcome, the reality we are forced to live in.
What happened to Absurd and why there are now 2 versions of the band?
Well, there is only one band as far as I am concerned. You surely know that I was a founding member of Absurd back in 1992, and that the only reason why I couldn’t continue with the band was that I left Germany and went into hiding in the USA, end of 1999. Two years later my brother Wolf came up with the idea of reforming Absurd with a completely new line-up, with him being the vocalist, and I have approved of this idea and gave it my public blessing, so to speak. That’s how Absurd kept going until 2012, when this line-up played their final concert and after their last studio recordings taking place in 2008, and the band ceased to exist in all but name.
In 2017, Wolf explained to Alexey of Militant Zone that he’s done with Absurd, and with doing any music in general. That’s when I decided to return to active duty in Absurd, by taking over vocals and adding new members to the line-up. We have played a few concerts, in Ukraine, Italy, Finland and France, and started working on new recordings subsequently. In 2022 we have released the sixth and new full-length album of Absurd, “Schwarze Bande.
In the meantime, an ex-member of Absurd used a studio session for another band in 2019 to record a few songs that were later released under Absurd as well, but that’s all there is to it. Hence, there is only one Absurd headed by the sole remaining founding member and that’s me. Concerning the biography of Absurd, in particular when it comes to changes in the line-up, the official website http://www.hordeabsurd.com can provide detailed insight to anyone who cares. Last but not least, Absurd are currently working on new songs and more concerts might happen too.
NSBM (or we could say radical black metal, to avoid the strict NS category) saw an increasing popularity in these last 10 years. Bands like Goatmoon or Nokturnal Mortum gained a lot of attention even besides the NSBM milieu. Events like Hot Shower and, especially, Asgardsrei brought the festival experience to the public. Besides the covid/war stop, what’s your thought on the current status of the genre?
It’s simply about cause and effect, action and reaction. First of all, you need to consider the broader context: Although the loonie Left in the West pretends to be in opposition to a “racist” state and “bigot” society, it is absolutely self-evident that the mainstream in politics, culture and arts has gone full-blown “woke”. From the heads of the state via the global corporations to the entertainment and music industry, everyone is pushing a “woke” agenda of identity politics, gender theory and cultural marxism.
If you subscribe to the same agenda, then you are 100% mainstream. There is zero rebellion in your words and no revolt in what you do, either. You are just one more cog in the wheel, period. However, this can’t be reconciled with the self-image of a subculture which is supposed to be anything but mainstream. Hence, the more you forcibly align Black Metal to the mainstream the more you will have bands and fans in this scene start pushing back, and their gravitation towards radical (i.e. non-conforming) Black Metal comes as the pendulum swings. With that being said, there are three specific reasons why this sort of Black Metal enjoys an increasing popularity.
- The loonie Left and their “guilt by association” that keeps expanding the definition of who’s radical Black Metal, with many bands and musicians suddenly considered “sketchy” even though there is nothing in their music and lyrics to indicate any of that. However, they have fans who are now less inclined to stay away from radical Black Metal, because if the bands they already listen to are supposed to be “sketchy” why not start listening to other “sketchy” bands too?
- The musical merits of radical Black Metal, which have vastly improved during the last couple of years and can’t be denied even by their most rabid critics. There are numberless “Sketch-free alternatives to band XY?”-threads on Reddit, for instance. People there keep looking for “safe” and “woke” substitutes to NSBM- and other radical / “sketchy” bands, because they yearn to listen to such bands based on the music but can’t deal with the lyrics or concepts. Even though they oppose said bands based on ideological grounds, they acknowledge that their music is just great and right up their alley. It might be true that painting a swastika on your album cover might get your band attention, but if you want to get fans your music must be good. And some of the radical Black Metal-bands are top tier in the genre, with selling tens of thousands of records also to people who just appreciate their music but don’t care about the lyrics and image.
- The releases of radical Black Metal bands are widely available and easily accessible, even though YouTube and Bandcamp go to great lengths for deplatforming their music. If you go shopping at some of the biggest online vendors for extreme Metal, then you will inevitably come across a vast selection of all sorts of records from radical Black Metal to NSBM. Take Osmose Productions from France, for instance. Once upon a time, Hervé said he opposes any fascism in Black Metal and when Marduk recorded their “Panzerdivision Marduk”-album for Osmose, the original cover showing a German Tiger battletank from World War 2 was replaced by the photo of a modern tank from the Swedish army (also it was said that the band wasn’t aware of this until the CD was released) for not upsetting any distributors in Germany; but many years later when Osmose started to work with bands like Nokturnal Mortum and the editors of German Metal press advised Hervé to stop doing that or else they wouldn’t print his advertisement anymore, he told them to fuck off and from this point on he just wouldn’t care about Black Metal said to be “sketchy” or not anymore. Now you can buy pretty much all the releases of radical Black Metal from Osmose too.
Contrary to the increasing popularity of the records released by radical Black Metal and NSBM-bands, the situation for live gigs has sharply declined since the start of Covid-related restrictions in Europe and elsewhere. For the powers-that-be it’s impossible to keep music from circulating once it was released, but it’s perfectly possible to cancel the live performance of this music if they know the date and place in advance.
The Asgardsrei festival was always singular, because it was a public event in a major city that could be easily visited by tourists from all over the world, but now this ain’t possible anymore and you can’t pull off the same kind of festival at any other place in Europe or North America, either. Hot Shower already was much more clandestine, and smaller events were even less advertised and thus remained confined to a local audience only. Organizers and bands must go to great lengths to make gigs happen without paying extra, because the tighter the security and secrecy the smaller the audience and revenue.
Furthermore, the local authorities also double down on their efforts to don’t let such gigs take place, at all. For instance, already in 2019 the Federal Police of Germany has seized my passport for one weekend and they didn’t let me fly to Kiew, because they said I want to attend a “Nazi gathering” there and thus they issued a worldwide travel ban for me. Now they keep doing the same to a lot more people whenever there is a concert or other event abroad and they presume that you might want to go there (either as band or as guest).
I don’t think that there comes the time when we have zero gigs of radical Black Metal and NSBM-bands anywhere, but at least in Europe and North America we are unlikely to see big festivals with several hundreds or thousands of people anymore.
In recent years, the pressures of antifa organizations on black metal (especially in the USA) have increased. But many “regular” listeners are getting tired of cancel culture and politically correct. Do you think this situation could create a rift in the public, pushing people towards more radical ideas since there is no longer a gray area in between?
Yes of course, that is already happening and the loonie Left, spearheaded by so-called “Antifa”, keeps ceaselessly erasing any “grey zone” between the radical fringe and the self-proclaimed “unpolitical” main body of Black Metal. I’ve always reminded everyone, who believed “Antifa” would “just deal with the Nazis in Metal and leave everyone else alone”, that they follow a strict “with us or against us”-modus operandi and thus they will never cease targeting and hounding bands unless musicians actually swear allegiance to the “woke” agenda. It ain’t enough to say “Our band is not about politics!”, because for “Antifa”, everything is politics. Identity politics, minority politics, gender politics, you-name-it.
Heavy Metal is a deeply conservative genre, it’s not “progressive” at all (just look at Manowar and you know what I am talking about). Even if there’s no NSBM anywhere to be found, there’s still so much more about Metal that offends “Antifa” and will provide them with ample reason to push their agenda in the Metal-scene no matter what. They are ignorant of any traditions and the history of this genre, because they are outsiders and strangers to Black Metal.
Quite a few bands in this particular scene, especially the more popular ones, are comfortable with fence sitting. They enjoy their private meetings and talks with the “bad guys” of the scene but they will never come out of the closet and admit that they are on friendly terms with someone deemed “Nazi”. If “Antifa” keeps pushing them off the fence and forces them to pick a side and stand their ground, all the better. Once bands will be so pissed off at Antifa that they ask their fans to don’t affiliate with anyone or anything “leftist”, we can step in and reach out and take over. “Antifa” is so much better at rallying hitherto unpolitical Metal-fans behind our banner and to our cause than what we could accomplish ourselves, just let them bring it on and keep it up for all I care! For every concert of Marduk, Taake, Deströyer 666, etc., that they manage to get cancelled, we’ll get a hundred more fans and followers of radical Black Metal and NSBM in return.
DTB was among the first label to catch the so called magick metal phenomenon, with Black Magick SS, Edelweiss and so on. What’s your thought on this subgenre? Do you think this kind of approach can “normalize” NS symbols and maybe bring new people to this kind of music/ideas?
I have started to release Black Magick SS long before there was any “Magick Metal”-trend and later I have worked with some other bands playing a similar style of music, because I liked what they did with their music and wanted this to be properly released and distributed. However, to me it was always obvious that any symbols and references to NS on their records were not supposed to be a political statement, but it’s rather a tongue-in-cheek gimmick for the sake of controversy and notoriety. There’s the people who are sounding alarm bells when they see a SS-Totenkopf on display and then there are the people who keep laughing it off, because this Totenkopf also shows a witch’s hat and looks decidedly funny. Either way, you got people talking about your band and buying your records, and that’s all that matters to a whole lot of bands obviously. A CD of Black Magick SS is most likely not helping any more to “normalize” NS symbols than, say, “Inglourious Basterds” by Quentin Tarantino does. It’s just entertainment to most people, I’d say. Those who want to see the NS in “Magick Metal” will keep feeling vindicated by certain symbols and similar references, and those who don’t want to see any NS in it will find plenty reasons why none of it must be taken seriously.
Weltenfeind.info 